Wow, fantastic job! That would take quite a bit of patience. I don't know if I could do it like that. Well done!
Are you going to post it? Or is it something you are going to keep in your family only?
Christ Alone
JoinedPosts by Christ Alone
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34
Last night was my martyring
by outsmartthesystem init went as expected.
i had multiple opportunities to pounce on their inconsistencies....but i refrained.
because i was recording it.
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Was the Watchtower Right?
by Christ Alone inthis question is for atheists and believers.
what teachings do you think the watchtower got right and why?
do you still think they are right about the trinity?
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Christ Alone
Regarding Hell, the JW position is interesting. I usually don't comment on it too much because it is controversial. One thing is sure, the Society's definition of the words "Sheol" and "Hades" totally disagrees with the definition given by Greek scholars. Vine's expository Dictionary states about "Hades": "It never denotes the grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost; in point of time it is, for such, intermediate between decease and the doom of Gehenna." Thayers Greek Lexicon says "Hades is the common receptacle of disembodied spirits.
The Bible's picture of Hades also refutes the Watchtower. One of the best illustrations of Hades is Luke 16:22-28. Jesus tells about a rich man who died and went to Hades, and Lazarus, begger, who died and went to paradise with Abraham. The rich man was in torment, while Lazarus was comforted.
The Watchtower says that the story was entirely symbolic. According to the "Let God Be True" book, "The rich man represents the ultra selfish class of the clergy of Christendom, who are now afar off from God and dead to his favor and services and tormented by the Kingdom truth proclaimed. Lazarus depicts the faithful remnant of the body of Christ (Jehovah's Witnesses). These, on being delivered from modern Babylon since 1919, received God's facor, pictured by the 'bosom' position of Abraham, and are comforted through his Word."
This shows the lengths the Watchtower is willing to go to avoid Hell and the existence of conscious life after death.
In Revelation 14:9-11, we are told that anyone who worships the beast and receives his mark "will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb." Again, to avoid the meaning of the verse, the Watchtower insists that these scriptures again are totally symbolic. According to the Watchtower these verses refer to the torment some individuals will suffer, while still alive, because of the message proclimed by Jehovah's Witnesses.
So what does "torment" mean in Greek? It comes from the Greek word "Basanizo". Thayer's Lexicon says that the word means "to vex with grievous pains." It always refers to literal pain. For example Matthew 8:6 tells of the centurion's servant who was at home paralyzed and suffering (basanizo). The demon in Mark 5:7 was worried that Jesus would torture (basanizo) him. The woman in Revelation 12:2 was gregnant and cried out in pain (basanizo. The Bible alway uses this word to refer to real, not symbolic, pain.
Back to Revelation 14:11, it shows that the wicked will never rest, and that they will be tormented forever. The Watchtower insists that this means annihilation. But if someone is annihilated, or wiped from existence, then they are at rest.
So then, can a God of love torment? This is what causes alot of people to turn away from God. Someone above said "I would rather go to hell than serve a god that would send me there." That's pretty telling. The book "Attributes of God" makes this statement: "A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger,fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness." Love is only one of the many attributes that God possesses. God IS loving and merciful, but he is equally holy and just. Because God is holy, he hates all sin. His holiness is infinite. It never ends. And when this holiness is offended, it requires that punishment be due.
Since God is holy and infinite, and sins committed against him require the full magnitude of divine punishment, this requires that punishment be infinite. Divine justice cannot exist alongside annihilation. Sentencing someone to an eternity of rest (annihilation) is hardly punishment for sins committed against an infinitely holy God. Punishment can only be experienced when someone is conscious.
The reality is that we have a choice. Someone going to hell is their choice not God's. Jesus, at John 3:18 says "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." God's wrath on unbelievers is a choice they make for themselves. His judgment on them is only what they choose. C.S Lewis wrote, "There are only two kinds of people in the end. Those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those whome God says, in the end, "They will be done.""
Romans 5:9 says that there is only one way to escape God's wrath. It says "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!"
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Jesus wife fragment is a fake
by Christ Alone inhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.
gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.
karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.
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Christ Alone
BTW, day 17 of praying, nothing yet.
Yeah, sounds like you are praying with a humble and open heart. God doesn't answer when you pray with a defiant attitude or a "SHOW YOURSELF" attitude. Only humble prayers that are said in faith are answered. James 1:6 says: " But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind."
You might as well stop. You're gonna get nothing with that attitude.
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Was the Watchtower Right?
by Christ Alone inthis question is for atheists and believers.
what teachings do you think the watchtower got right and why?
do you still think they are right about the trinity?
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Christ Alone
It's interesting that some of the doctrines that are peculiar to the cults are the ones that many still hold onto even after leaving. Makes me wonder if some researched these matters outside of the NWT after leaving? As far as I can see, other translations show a far different picture of who Jesus is, what the soul is, and what the eternal destination of all of us after death.
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What are your favourite TV series or mini-series that you cant wait to see the next episode
by smiddy insome of mine are :.
boardwalk empire , deadwood , the borgias , game of thrones , homeland , vegas , political animal , the good wife, to name a few .
smiddy.
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Christ Alone
Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, SNL, Big Bang Theory, It's always sunny, and MOST of all Game of Thrones (I can't believe it's not coming back until well into next year!!!)
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Jesus wife fragment is a fake
by Christ Alone inhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.
gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.
karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.
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Christ Alone
I'm wondering why no one started a specific thread about this. 15 pages of "I hear voices from God" and "No you don't" and "Yes I do" and "Then you must be crazy".
So...er....yeah....the Jesus wife fragment is a fake.
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Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....
by EndofMysteries inif anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.
how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.
i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.
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Christ Alone
To answer your other question, my personal views fit more with agnosticism or weak atheism. I find it more honest for me to admit ignorance and maintain disbelief in things I do not know, and beliefs about what I think I know (which is only a working mental construction, from a critical realist pov). Hence my allowance of unknown unknowns as potentialities (as opposed to believing in unknown unknowns).
Again, a VERY respectable statement and view, in my opinion! While I know you differ in belief, it reminds me of what Ray Franz said about deciding to keep silent where the scriptures do, or where he doesn't understand the meaning. I think the term he used was "a reverent agnosticism." I know that's a bit different from you, but I respect someone SO much more when they can say "I don't know" than claiming to know something that isn't definite.
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Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....
by EndofMysteries inif anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.
how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.
i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.
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Christ Alone
To make things simple, I'll say that I don't believe in the ontological existence in any divinity from any mythology. And that is not to say that I am against the idea of mythology....I love mythology. But I don't accept the claims of any mythology as reflecting an outside reality beyond the culture and ideas that shape it, unless there is good empirical evidence to think otherwise.
Awesome statement, Leo! I've frequently wondered what your beliefs are, and this was great. It explains alot about you and your posts. Nothing but respect for you!!!
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Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....
by EndofMysteries inif anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.
how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.
i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.
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Christ Alone
why is it so hard to assume that Egypt did not adopt religious concepts or ideas from another people, nation, civilization etc?
Another JW example of "Who cares about the details...isn't it possible that it COULD be true". They say this and then put it out of their mind so they can keep believing what they want to believe.
This comment almost doesn't merit any response. We were talking about the claim that Hislop made that Egypt developed its religion based off of the beliefs held by people in Mesopotamia. When shown to be false Elephant tries to defend Rutherford because Rutherford is associated with his religion. No admission that Rutherford and Hislop were absolutely 100% wrong. No, he just comes back with "why is it hard to assume". Because, Elephant, we are not assuming anything. We are examining what was written and showing that it was 100% false.
I guess this is what frustrates me. Every JW will SAY "We have been wrong in the past. We've NEVER claimed to be infallible." But when you get them backed into a corner with a cold and hard fact, they will defend the position of the Watchtower to the death. I've never heard a JW say, "Yeah...wow...the Watchtower was really off base there weren't they? I wonder WHY they said that..." I guess the reason is that they don't WANT to know why the Watchtower said it. If they discover that the Watchtower lied (knowingly or unknowingly) then that causes some cognitive dissonance, and that must be avoided at all costs!
Elephant, do yourself a favor and instead of defending the Watchtower (and the obvious quackery of Rutherford), try and do your own research OUTSIDE of the Watchtower so you can join in on an intelligent conversation with the big kids.
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Well, I talked with two active JWs about the latest understanding of the F&DS.
by Theocratic Sedition ini know a brother who went to the most recent annual meeting.
older brother, non-annointed, elder, wife a pioneer, and overall a pretty good dude.
he let me take a peak at the new awake dropping in 2013, which by the way i have to give credit where it's due as i like the new 16 page format.
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Christ Alone
yea that line raised an eyebrow. There is no choir
According to my sources, the WT is releasing a cd very soon with a kids choir singing the new kingdom melodies. The song in the new kids dvd is taken from that recording.